Scenic co-leader of G1 winners; worldwide stats incomplete

10 thoughts on “Scenic co-leader of G1 winners; worldwide stats incomplete”

  1. I don’t know one either, but I think such a list would be of questionable value anyway.

    The problem is that International Group 1/ Grade 1-standards aren’t comparable. Winning a G1 in Japan, HK or Dubai makes you a world-class horse by default, the same cannot be said for accomplishing this feat in Australia, South Africa or the US, where a far higher number of races carry the label.
    In Latin America and many minor jurisdictions, Graded Status is intended to identify the most important races on a national level, but winning a G1 in Peru, Korea or Panama doesn’t automatically make your horse BC material.

    Still, the Racing Post should display it more prominently that their statistics include only those countries and races found in their “results” section (I didn’t see that clarification at all, but it’s probably hidden somewhere).

  2. Just one point of clarification. Werk Thoroughbred Consultants, Inc. does, in fact, “track” and include Southern Hemisphere stakes. We do so as a component of our nick rating system as well as for our pedigree research and consultation. Your broader point is correct, though, in that the weekly “Leading Sires” list published on our website includes only North America, Europe, and Japan.

  3. Jack — Thanks for the clarification; I only meant it in terms of your leading sire lists.

    Malcer — International Cataloguing Standards is the “bible” of international black type; it’s what appears on sales catalog pages, and it’s what “counts” in sire records. Part I countries (and some exceptions, including some races in Hong Kong, Singapore, and Scandinavia) have black type, including Group races, that appears on sales catalogs. Peru is a Part I country, but Korea and Panama, to name two that you mentioned, are not. Their “Group” races are for informational purposes only. Part II countries have black type, but no internationally recognized Group races. Part III countries list stakes races for informational purposes only.

    How well IRPAC (the committee that actually assigns black type for the ICS catalog) does its job is questionable, in my opinion.

  4. Sloppy error on my part for ignoring the Part I/II/III-distinction. Still, my larger point was that lists including only G1 races (from Part I countries) are dependent on the individual grades assigned to races, which is done by committees on the national level, and their standards/intentions differ enormously.

  5. English bloodstock consultant Clive Webb-Carter sent this in by email:

    “I think that there are five sires with three Group 1 winners as according to stakes statistics SLEW GIN FIZZ (USA) (Relaunch) I notice he has sired Cayaya, Dry Martini and Latency all to win a Gr 1 level. All three of these stakes winners are ‘real’ Gr 1 winners as Dry Martini won the Suburban Handicap (Gr 1) and Argentina in Part 1 of ISCB.

    “While working for Thoroughbredinternet I spent a long time sourcing all the races so they match the races listed in the ISCB so I would like to feel that that stakes stats are pretty accurate.

    “As to following Argentine sires I use and then click on the Estadísticas link. ”

    Clive– you are correct; this is a site I use, and I did forget to check on here. Slew Gin Fizz is indeed the fifth sire with at least 3 Group 1 winners this year.

    However, this site also includes Water Poet with 2 Group 1 winners, and here’s the problem with this site: Water Poet is the sire of 2 G1 winners in Venezuela, which is not a Part I country.

    Larry, you’ll appreciate this: Water Poet is a son of Sadler’s Wells, and Jack Werk had a role in the sale of this stallion to Venezuela. One of his analysts at the time, Marie, had a brother down there looking for a stallion. Jack, after consultation with me, recommended Water Poet. Her brother purchased him, and he’s since become a leading sire there.

    Once again, as far ar lists go, this one is incomplete, too, but, Clive, it’s the best one I’ve seen.

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